Message #1973

From: Eduard <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Subject: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 22:15:05 -0000

Sorry for some confusion in my 24c FT macros for faces.
The macros are not c4 and c5 but c4, c5new and kipp6. c5new is similar to c5 and kipp6 turns two faces on place (reference point in between).

— In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" <baumann@…> wrote:
>
>
>
> Here are some remarks to my 24cell Ft solve.
>
> Treat the cells in a contiguous manner. Allwasy take as next cell a
> neighbouring cell.
> The strategy is first 96 facecenters, then 96 edges, then 288 facesides,
> then 144 subcorners and finally 24 corners.
>
> Facecenters
>
> Two 3-cycle macros c4 and c5.
> In 24c FT macros faces
> <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0ALtTqS1Cw3xYK_UKxV9PgC8Tkq-Rz8661F3EV7vNv > NWfLgwbJNfZfAVXvspUnLQ2sCHNRO04Taa_gpaNjli2vO8iujAU_IFR6CjzIg/Eduard/24c > _FT_macros_faces.dat> .
>
> Edges
>
> macro edg5 = 3-cycle in same cell
> macro edg4 = 3-cycle between cells
> macro mir22 mirrors an edge on place
> In 24c FT macros edges
> <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0ALtTq5Y-7vxYK_Uqw7ze3NaVJxexJWMskZS5TbSvh > w5yAt9FJd6iSr6wGGL3gwdhNLAmmiHDbrhytOKuQ54aeq9AMYcN_Kw6cui4MI/Eduard/24c > _FT_macros_edges.dat>
>
> Facesides
>
> 3-cycle macros between cells: fc22 and fc24
> 3-cycle macros within cell keeping the color in this cell: fc18 (one
> side) and fc21 (two sides)
> In 24c FT macros facesides
> <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0ALtTiXbceDxYK_UT8aaRRBjctWteRoD8qegtDeOWL > yKAhOC6DHu-zmM3Ekc25TnHt25-X3-OULv1AUmJ_4HCxMkzirK6CCBIb681Ys/Eduard/24c > _FT_macros_facesides.dat>
>
> (a)
> Collect all correct colored stickers of one cell with the "injectors in
> a new cell" fc22 or fc24 without paying attention to the ordering within
> this cell. Use fc18 and fc21 in the setup’s.
>
> (b)
> Order the stickers in the cell with fc18 and fc21
>
> Subcorners
>
> Two 3-cycle macros sc11 (3584 long) within a cell and sc6t (21714 long)
> between neighbouring cells.
> In 24c FT macros subcorners
> <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0ALtTgo1AYLxYK_U-OfezCGS5CD_NJvR-2lyMk1DVY > KeyYuQXxlLT63QAdAQrEXTBJHdYUAm7juDGPbkpcI7cQzrczG5s6VVYjbfGKE/Eduard/24c > _FT_macros_subcorners.dat>
>
> Corners
>
> A wide 3-cycle macro c14 (836 long), a narrow 3-cycle macro c17d (4176
> long) and a macro c15 (4176 long) which turns two corners on place.
> At the very last I was left with only one corner turned on place. This
> showed me that in the contrary to the Rubiks cube one corner alone can
> be turned. My macro c23 (58480 long) turns only one corner.
> In 24c FT macro corners
> <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0ALtTjJGkrzxYK_UBt9IbUjSE7Yv-farIjNyLUOgEk > z28rnyHlQ4CrNA9nKzzKwcjJoh_K9AxZwx7oRcgbW1wozPqtuX1lr4hAyYljI/Eduard/24c > _FT_macros_corners.dat>
>
>
> The most of the 10 million twist are due to sc6t which is 21714 long. I
> can certainly find a shorter macro which does the same, but find a short
> solve was not my aim.
>
> The elapsed time for my solve is 66 hours.
>
> You can find my macros with pictures in "files / Eduard". R is always
> the reference point for the macro. Ignore these files if you don’t want
> spoil your pleasure to construct yourself such macros.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Ed
>
> — In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Yes, there was a typo. Should be
> > …which has no equivalent in 3D.
> > instead of
> > …which has no equivalent in 4D.
> >
> > More about my 24c solve will follow.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Ed
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Melinda Green
> > To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
> >
> >
> >
> > Congratulations, Ed!!!
> >
> > This was a mighty solution. I got your solution file and unpacked it
> just fine. It’s funny because it doesn’t look that big at all when I
> scroll around in it but I guess it really does contain 10 million
> twists. Let this be a notice to everyone that unless you are attempting
> a shortest solution, length does not matter at all. A solution is a
> solution however you manage it and you should feel no less proud to make
> heavy use of macros you develop.
> >
> > Yes, the 24-cell is special. When you said it has no equivalent in 4D
> I think you mean that it has no analog in any other dimension. 4-space
> has the most regular polytopes and this one sits smack in the middle and
> is also self-dual so in many ways it is the ultimate regular polytope.
> The jewel in the middle of the crown. Of course lots of other polytopes
> have special features like the simplexes, 120-cell, Klein’s Quartic,
> etc., but if I were a serious puzzle solver I would definitely want to
> have conquered this rare and terrible beauty.
> >
> > So any closing thoughts on your experience? Very few people even
> attempt this monster so I’m sure that the rest of us will relish every
> word from the intrepid explorers like yourself who wrestle it into
> submission.
> >
> > Congratulations again,
> > -Melinda
> >
> > On 12/16/2011 9:37 AM, Eduard wrote:
> >
> > I have solved now (as third person) the "24cell FT" with much more
> twists (about 10 millions) than Nan and Andrey. So the log file is big:
> 90MB. I had to zip it before sending it to the 4D cubing group. My log
> file
> > For me the "24call FT" is the most beautyful of these virtual 4D
> twisting puzzles (and similars). It is the only regular convex 4D
> polytope which has no equivalent in 4D. The face turning mode is the
> most natural one. "24cell FT" is about 5 times more difficult to handle
> than the 3x3x3x3 and less lengthy than the 120cell.
> >
> >
> > — In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I’m still solving with great pleasure the "24cell FT". I have solved
> 96 2C face centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C face sides sofar and I’m
> approaching the 50% of the puzzle. My move count is 390’000 and the
> elapsed time 42h45. Nan has reached 54’000 moves and 9h25 for the whole.
> And Andrey is even better. I will use estimated 1 Mio moves to finish. I
> think that Nan and Andrey must use external computer program power and
> advise or do extremely sophisticated setup’s. Is that so?
> > >
> > > — In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Work with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24. Ed, :)
> > > >
> > > > — In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no
> macros at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing
> with 120-cell it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting
> things are still ahead :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Andrey
> > > > >
> > > > > — In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" <baumann@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I
> needed 8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same
> thing. This is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my
> efforts. Now I tackle the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The
> same 3 cycle executed 3 times gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > — In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" <baumann@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have started to solve "24cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma
> did it in about 54’000 moves.
> > > > > > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are
> 96. For 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I
> see that he used only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves
> are dedicated to place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from
> the face elements (13’000 to 54’000).
> > > > > > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces
> and a narrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about
> 10’000 moves for the faces only.
> > > > > > > I observe also when replying Nan’s log file that only the
> very first moves show an animation.
> > > > > > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>