Message #3301

From: Roice Nelson <>
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: Greetings
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:09:29 -0600

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 2:07 AM, Melinda Green
[4D_Cubing] <> wrote:

> You don’t mind it being removed? Maybe that makes sense after Andrey
> convinced us that he had done it earlier in an implementation of his own,
> but it sure seemed to Don and I like a big milestone at the time.
Nope, not at all. I feel it is an outdated category at this point, and we
get daily solves by folks on this list of crazy puzzles that represent so
much more!

> …with first and shortests for each. I’d vote to start with 1,2, and 4
> I think. We might want to consider putting 2/4 on a completely separate
> page.
> You mean 3 & 5?
I meant 2 & 4, because of worries of 3 and the timeframe of 5. But I was
just brainstorming. 1, 2, & 4 in the existing HOF would be great too.

> Regarding 3, if the computer were in charge of a MC4D solution, I agree
> that human help will only become less useful over time. I was just
> imagining that the user would still be directing the overall solution but
> the software would do all of the grunt work. So for example, it might
> suggest a list of the shortest sequences it finds to move pieces into their
> proper places. The user can select one and have it perform all the work, or
> completely override it; sort of like how Google Maps driving instructions
> find new routes when you’ve convinced it that you’re not going to stick
> with the previously chosen one.

That’s a nice analogy. Maybe 3 will end up being a bigger category than
I’m imagining!

> As for 5, I would dearly love to award that prize someday! I for one am
> ready to become a pampered pet of our new AI overlords.

> That is so cool that you’ve just gotten into my favorite game! I used to
> really enjoy chess but once I took up Go, I completely switched. While it’s
> a great social activity, I also recommend finding good Go software to play
> against, especially if it can adapt it’s handicap to your rapid progress in
> the beginning. I started with IGoWin
> <> because it was great to be able
> to play hundreds of 9x9 games as fast as I liked. The better I got, the
> lower handicap I got, and eventually it started taking larger and larger
> handicaps for itself. That kept me challenged and helped me quickly learn
> the most important patterns and a sense of what’s safe and what’s not. I
> could just try any crazy thing that I’d be curious about but unlikely to
> try against another person.
Sweet, I’m glad to hear I picked a good one because I’ve been using IGoWin
too! I have about a hundred 9x9 and fifty 13x13 games under my belt at
this point. It’s interesting that while ratings and handicaps change, I
always win about half the games. It’s tuned quite well for progressing
that way, but I’m not yet to the point where the computer is taking
handicaps! I can already tell I like Go better than chess too, which I’ve
played quite a bit in the past. (It feels analogous to a
skiing-snowboarding switch I made many years ago. After riding a snowboard
once, I never skied again.)

By the way, I forgot to mention. My username on both Pandanet
<> (live games) and Online Go
<> (correspondence games) is roice3. If anyone wants
to play a game sometime, let me know!

While I’m also rooting for AlphaGo, I honestly have no idea who’s going to
> win. AlphaGo’s strength when it beat the European champion was definitely
> not strong enough to beat LSD, but they wouldn’t have offered a million
> dollar prize if they didn’t think they would be ready by March. They’re
> certainly going to throw every bit of hardware they can at it, and they’re
> tuning the algorithms and playing millions of training games in the
> meantime. Here’s as much of a prediction as I would bet on: The result will
> not be 5-0 in either direction, and if LSD wins this time, he will lose 5-0
> in a rematch the following year. Exciting stuff!

I like those predictions. I went to the site you sent around, and am
excited that the games will be going at a somewhat reasonable hour here
too. Watching some of them live will be fun, and perhaps a Go-watching
party is in order when the competition is nearing the end.